Olymel, an arm of Sollio Co-operative, said late Wednesday it had recalled “employees that are needed to ensure that the gradual restarting of operations goes smoothly” at its Red Deer, Alta. hog plant. Slaughter is to resume Thursday and cutting room operations Friday, the company said.

The company said Wednesday it was also recalling employee groups “to take part in training sessions covering all implemented health measures, adjustments and additions made to some of them, and the action plan developed for reopening.”

United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW) Local 401, which represents workers at the Red Deer plant, said Wednesday on Facebook it was “glad to see Olymel reacting to the pressure we’ve been placing on them by cancelling a planned slaughter shift and instead providing the training we called for in our response to the proposed plant reopening.”

Olymel on Feb. 15 declared an indefinite suspension of work at the plant as COVID cases rose among employees, and said conditions were “no longer assembled to continue normal operations in a safe and efficient manner.”

Quoting provincial and union officials, local media on Wednesday reported over 500 cases of COVID-19 are linked to the Olymel plant outbreak, including four deaths. The plant employs about 1,800 people.

Olymel, in its release late Wednesday, said management “is pleased to confirm that most of the employees who have had COVID-19 since the outbreak began have recovered” and offered condolences to families, friends and coworkers of three employees whose deaths were linked to the outbreak.

The company said it “took advantage of the plant closure to update and reinforce the many health and safety measures that were already in place at the plant,” working with a provincial task force that was set up “to support the company in planning a safe gradual reopening.”

Following “full plant inspections by expert teams” from Alberta Health Services (AHS), Occupational Health and Safety (OHS) and Environmental Public Health (EPH) on Monday and Wednesday, AHS “made several recommendations aimed at adjusting and reinforcing certain measures that were already in place and gave the green light to gradually resume operations,” Olymel said.

AHS experts “will be on site when operations resume and will offer rapid testing to anyone who has not tested positive and wishes to be tested,” the company said, noting 1,370 Red Deer employees have been tested since Jan. 1.

However, in a letter Monday to plant management, UFCW 401 president Thomas Hesse said “well over 70 per cent of Olymel employees feel so uncertain about the safety of the plant, that they are prepared to exercise their right to refuse unsafe work.”

That number, he wrote, “is a startling statistic from workers who have been laid off without pay through no fault of their own for going on two weeks.”

Hesse’s letter included a list of “action items” for Olymel to address, including compensation for workers laid off during the shutdown, as well as $4/hour in “pandemic pay premiums” for all employees going forward as long as the pandemic lasts.

The union also called for measures to reduce employee crowding in certain areas, improve ventilation and air quality and stagger start times and break times to help maintain social distancing.

“Please know that unless you can guarantee no one else will become ill and no one else will die, the rushed reopening of Olymel’s Red Deer plant and the resulting consequences will be on your conscience — and yours alone,” Hesse wrote.

‘Precarious position’

The plant’s supply teams, meanwhile, are “in contact with Alberta hog farmers to plan the gradual resumption of deliveries,” Olymel said Wednesday.

Olymel had said in mid-February it expected a backlog of 80,000 to 90,000 hogs from closing the Red Deer plant and planned to ship its company-owned farms’ hogs to U.S. packers to help clear that backlog.

It said Wednesday it “had made the necessary decisions to manage the flow of pigs from its own farms in order to facilitate a return to normal when operations resumed.”

The Red Deer plant has capacity to process about 45,000 hogs per week, out of the company’s total Canadian capacity of about 185,000.

Officials with Alberta Pork had said Feb. 23 that many of its producer members ship hogs to the Olymel plant weekly — and the closure of any processing plant, “even for a short period of time, places producers in a precarious position.”

“Barns are starting to get crowded,” Alberta Pork chair Brent Moen told Alberta Farmer on Monday. “Collectively, we would have marketed probably 100,000 to 110,000 head that are now backed up.”

Affected hog farmers were “adjusting feed levels” to slow their hogs’ growth, while also seeking slaughter space at other plants in both Western Canada and the U.S. for market-ready hogs, Alberta Pork said Feb. 23.

Some producers, the organization said, “are opting to move younger pigs to empty barns in the U.S. to free up space for larger pigs at home.”

Alberta Pork at that time asked producers who normally ship to Olymel to “voluntarily submit any settlement statements and transportation bills” as supporting data for a federal/provincial set-aside program, similar to those set up following COVID-induced cattle and hog slaughter plant shutdowns elsewhere in Canada.

Moen said Monday a program to help offset the costs of keeping market-ready hogs was “under discussion” with provincial officials, “and I believe they are working on a program, but it’s too early to speculate as to what exactly that might be.” — Glacier FarmMedia Network

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The provincial government and hog producer agency Alberta Pork on Monday announced the first of two cases reported Friday was in fact a “false positive.”

Specifically, Alberta Pork said Monday, the investigating lab in the third case “identified the virus in a sample, but pigs at the formerly-suspected affected premise have shown no signs of illness.”

False positives, the agency said, are “infrequent but can be expected occasionally in disease investigations, due to the sensitivity and concern for positive results.”

“Investigation into possible explanations around these results is underway,” the province said in a separate statement Monday.

Alberta Pork said it apologized for “any confusion or alarm” resulting from Friday’s notice.

As of now, Alberta Pork said, “we can confirm three outbreaks of PED in Alberta in 2019” so far. Those include the other case reported Friday as well as the cases confirmed Jan. 7 and Feb. 21.

The province and other stakeholders are “monitoring the situation to determine a source for all outbreaks, but none have been found yet,” the agency said.

Any possible connection between the three outbreaks “remains uncertain,” the agency added.

Neither the province nor Alberta Pork have yet said whether Friday’s confirmed case is geographically close to either of the first two.

The February case, however, is “far away” from the January case, Alberta Pork’s quality assurance and production manager Javier Bahamon said Feb. 22 via email.

Alberta’s hog herd, up until January, had managed to avoid any on-farm outbreaks of PED. Almost 250 other on-farm PED outbreaks have been confirmed in Canada since its arrival in early 2014, mostly on hog operations in southern Ontario and southeastern Manitoba.

The PED virus (PEDv) is a coronavirus which, once introduced in a herd, causes vomiting, watery diarrhea and dehydration in infected hogs. Mortality rates run up to 100 per cent in infected nursing-age piglets but are much lower in growing hogs, which generally present with milder diarrhea. There is no known human health risk or food safety risk associated with PED. –– Glacier FarmMedia Network

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The provincial ag ministry on Thursday said its investigation of the PED case, discovered Jan. 3 at a 400-head farrow-to finish operation, “continues to suggest that the incident is limited to one farm, with no evidence of spread off of the farm.”

Samples from the environmental sampling surveillance program at high-traffic sites in Alberta, such as assembly yards, abattoirs, truck wash stations and stock trailers, “continue to be negative for PED.”

The ag ministry, working with Alberta Pork, is still looking into possible sources for the infection, “but, as in previous outbreaks, there may be an inability to definitively identify a source,” the province said.

Extensive testing has so far explored and ruled out several theories, including introduction by animals or transports, Alberta Pork said in a separate release. “Unfortunately, no obvious source of introduction was found.”

So far, Alberta Pork added, there’s “no evidence to support other theories such as introduction by feed or equipment brought onto the farm.”

As for the farm’s hogs, none have left the farm since PED was first detected there, and provincial veterinarians and the herd’s vet have since made “several visits” to the farm, the province said.

All animals on the farm are in “good condition with sufficient space,” the province said, and are being observed for any ongoing signs of illness. Sampling is also still being run to see whether any of the animals are still infectious.

“Enhanced biosecurity measures” are also still in place to reduce the risk of the virus leaving the farm site, Alberta Pork said, adding that all producers “should always strictly uphold their own biosecurity protocols.”

The PED virus (PEDv) is a coronavirus which, once introduced in a herd, causes vomiting, watery diarrhea and dehydration in infected animals. Mortality rates run up to 100 per cent in infected nursing-age piglets but are much lower in growing hogs, which generally present with milder diarrhea.

The virus affects pigs but poses no risk to human health or food safety, and pork products remain safe for consumption, Alberta Pork reiterated. — Glacier FarmMedia Network

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Alberta Pork, the province’s hog producer commission, and the provincial government on Tuesday announced an outbreak of the viral disease at what was described as a “400-head hog operation.”

Javier Bahamon, quality assurance and production manager for Alberta Pork, told Alberta Farmer on Tuesday that the outbreak was discovered last Thursday (Jan. 3) on a farrow-to-finish operation and was reported to the provincial ag department by a private veterinarian.

The barn in question has been “contained,” he said, and other producers in the area have been notified. No other information was immediately available Tuesday on the general location of the property.

The porcine epidemic diarrhea virus (PEDv) is a coronavirus which, once introduced in a herd, causes vomiting, watery diarrhea and dehydration in infected animals. Mortality rates run up to 100 per cent in infected nursing-age piglets but are much lower in growing hogs, which generally present with milder diarrhea.

Alberta Pork emphasized in a release Tuesday the disease poses no risk to people or other animals and pork products remain safe for consumption.

The provincial ag ministry said in a separate statement it doesn’t expect to see any “market access implications” for Alberta hogs or pork as a result of the new finding.

All that said, “any sudden onset of unusual diarrhea should be investigated immediately by a veterinarian,” the province said.

PEDv is known to spread via the “fecal-oral” route, most commonly through infected feces coming onto farms on “various surfaces” that can carry and transmit the virus, Alberta Pork said.

Biosecurity protocols are of “utmost importance” to curb further impact, Alberta Pork said. “It is especially critical during this outbreak that producers consider enhancing biosecurity on-farm and in animal transportation.”

Producers “are encouraged to submit all swine manifests, including farm-to-farm movements, in a timely manner” and off-farm destinations such as abattoirs “should be considered as a potential source for bringing disease to your herd.”

Alberta had guarded its PED-free status since before the disease first appeared in the Canadian hog herd, on a hog farm in southern Ontario in early 2014. The disease was confirmed in the U.S. in May 2013 and Alberta declared PED a provincially reportable disease the following Jan. 20.

Alberta’s surveillance turned up an environmental sample of PEDv in an “office space” at a hog handling facility later that fall, but the disease hadn’t appeared in hogs anywhere in Alberta until now.

Since the disease’s first appearance there, Ontario has confirmed outbreaks at 117 hog farms, most recently on Dec. 20, 2018 at a farrow-to-weaning operation in Perth County.

PEDv also turned up in hogs in Manitoba in 2014 and has appeared in 107 on-farm outbreaks in Manitoba, nearly all in the province’s southeast, most recently at a finisher barn on Dec. 28, 2018.

Quebec has reported 16 outbreaks since 2014, most recently in the Centre-du-Quebec region in April 2015 but mainly in the Monteregie. Prince Edward Island reported one outbreak in 2015. Saskatchewan has turned up environmental samples of PEDv, but no cases in hogs to date. — Glacier FarmMedia Network

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While nearly all hog farmers are prepared for the new pain control requirements, a recent telephone town hall hosted by Alberta Pork showed many producers are still concerned about the amount of time the new procedures will take. A quick poll showed that 43 per cent of participants were most concerned about how long it would take to administer pain control, compared to 17 per cent of respondents who saw the cost of the drugs as most concerning.

Mark Flynn manages animal care programs for the Manitoba Pork Council and said the amount of time pain control takes depends on how it is administered.

“There is basically three different ways to administer it,” he said. “You can administer it through injection, you can administer it through an oral drench route, where you squirt medication into the mouths of piglets, or through topical application.”

Producers should work with their herd veterinarians to determine which application is right for their operation if they haven’t already, he said.

“But most of the producers have already talked to their herd veterinarian about pain control options,” said Flynn, adding the change in regulation has been years in the making.

The new code was first officially released in the spring of 2014, after three years of consultation and two additional months of public feedback. It also moves the industry towards open sow housing and enrichment and replaces a previous version penned in 1993.

Producers will need a prescription from their herd veterinarian whatever method they choose to use for pain control.

“I believe there are four or five non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs that could be used in a pain control setting, and a lot of the potential for pain is derived from inflammation post surgery, so those drugs would be good choices and they can work with their vets on that,” Flynn said.

Health Canada has yet to approve any pain control claims on any medication specifically for soft tissue surgeries like castration, but the absence of that claim doesn’t mean the drugs are ineffective, said Flynn.

“There are products in development where they are looking for claims, specifically for pain control for castration, and there has been some stuff developed for cattle, so there are options out there for pain control, but it would require a veterinary prescription to be administered,” he said.

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Producers are advised to contact their veterinarians immediately and not move hogs if they detect blisters around their mouth, hoof, or nose.

Seneca Valley virus has has been sporadically identified in the U.S. since 1988, and was identified in Canada this year, a notice from Manitoba Pork to producers says. “Very little is known about the disease, how it spreads, how to prevent and/or control it, although direct animal contact and transportation vehicles are the most likely risk pathways.”

“Seneca Valley virus is a concern because you can’t distinguish it from the really scary reportable foreign animal diseases such as foot-and-mouth, without doing lab testing,” provincial veterinary epidemiologist Julia Keenliside said during Alberta Pork’s monthly pork town hall.

“Just by looking at the animal, you can’t tell what virus caused those blisters. If you see blisters, call your vet right away and get it checked out.”

Dr. Megan Bergman, Manitoba’s chief veterinary officer, said in an email her office has been working with industry, private veterinarians and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency to monitor the situation.

“Manitoba’s animal health lab (Veterinary Diagnostic Services) plans on implementing a diagnostic test when it becomes available. MAFRD is also working with industry to address implications if a positive case is found in Manitoba,” she said.

Detected at plant

In October 2015, two pigs from Manitoba, upon arrival at a U.S. slaughter facility, presented with symptoms and subsequently tested positive for Seneca Valley virus. However, followup testing of all source herds in Manitoba were found to be negative. No cases have been identified in pigs at any farm in Manitoba, she said.

About 70 premises in the U.S. were affected by the virus in 2015. Although it is not reportable, it does not seem to be spreading rapidly. The disease, which affects pigs, cows and mice, has been found here in the past.

“We want to send out the word to producers and people in the industry, especially those who transport pigs, to be on the lookout for blisters because it can be a very serious issue if we do have a serious animal disease,” said Keenliside. “It’s really important that we get everything looked at by a veterinarian, tested by CFIA and confirmed that it is not a foreign animal disease and that it is in fact Seneca Valley.”

Although not as severe as porcine epidemic diarrhea, the virus can cause increased mortality in piglets under seven days of age. The blisters only appear for a day or so, before rupturing. This causes sores near a pig’s nose and mouth or on their tongue. Sows and gilts may develop a fever and be off feed.

In growing or slaughter pigs, the animals will develop lameness because of painful blisters where the hoof attaches to the foot, so producers should watch out for acute, sudden lameness in a whole group of pigs.

“The good news is that it does seem to resolve very quickly and there’s not a lot of mortality,” said Keenliside.

Do not move

Pigs with blisters should not be moved and should not be taken to slaughter. Other reportable diseases that cause blisters in swine are swine vesicular disease, vesicular stomatitis and swine vesicular exanthema.

Foot-and-mouth is currently not in North America but if there was a case, it would cause an immediate border closure and a cessation of trade.

“It would be quite a disaster for our pig industry, and possibly other industries such as the cattle industry,” said Keenliside.

It is not known how the virus is transmitted. To see a slide show about the disease and what it looks like, go to www.nationalhogfarmer.com and search for ‘seneca facts.’

There is also a fact sheet courtesy of Manitoba Pork posted here.

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Governor Brian Schweitzer announced in February that Chinese investors were interested in developing a facility capable of processing 800,000 pigs. But additional details are scarce.

“At this point there’s no proposal,” said John Adams, a reporter with the Great Falls Tribune who has been covering the story. “Nobody has made an application. As far as I know, there’s not even a specific company that’s proposing this.”

This isn’t the first time the idea of a Shelby plant has been floated. Most of the state’s hogs are processed in California and Idaho.

“The governor says China wants this pork, we can provide it, so let’s get a pork-processing plant built,” said Adams. “There’s been talk for a long time about a pork facility in Shelby as part of a new intermodal hub. There would be a number of different companies that would use this hub for transporting and putting products in containers. Some of which would go on trains and shipped to the West Coast or the Midwest. Others would go on trucks.”

Southern option

Although Montana’s pork industry is much smaller than Alberta’s, producers north of the border would benefit from having another potential buyer, said Jim Haggins, chairman of Alberta Pork.

“Their (hog producers) are almost 100 per cent Hutterite colonies,” said Haggins. “It’s considerably smaller in Montana. But as you suspected, that location would be an attraction for producers out of southern Alberta. Anybody south of Claresholm would be closer to a plant in Shelby than they would to Red Deer, for instance.”

Currently, Alberta is home to four federally inspected pork processors — Olymel in Red Deer, which processes 35,000 head weekly; Maple Leaf Meats in Lethbridge, which processes 6,500 head per week; Sunterra Meats at Trochu with 3,000 weekly; and Sturgeon Valley Pork in Morinville, which processes 2,000 each week.

“That’s not anywhere close to their capacity though — there’s actually excess packing capacity right now so that’s causing producers to shift around to the best financial market,” said Haggins, adding that Alberta pork is also being processed in B.C., Saskatchewan and Manitoba.

Shelby is 30 minutes from the Canadian border and a plant processing 10,000-plus pigs weekly would require animals from Canada to be efficient.

“It is a strategic location for them,” Haggins said. “There have been rumblings of that for the last five years or so. Shelby has been considered before — if it goes ahead, that’s all good news. It’s a long road. They talk about having construction next year, but we’ll see.”

Alberta produces 2.3 million market hogs per year, which is down sharply since the market collapse in 2009.

“Our sow base was capable of producing four million (market hogs) before, but the sow base has dropped by about a third,” said Haggins. Alberta is currently home to 135,000 sows.

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Following several months of small to moderate profits over the summer, a dramatic fall in hog prices and soaring feed costs have once again put Canada’s pig producers in a perilous position.

After three years of hemorrhaging cash, producers hoped a sustained period of profits would rebuild equity. Those hopes have been dashed on the rocks of U.S. oversupply and expensive feed.

Jim Haggins, chairman of Alberta Pork, told a recent series of regional producer meetings that producers are currently losing $37 per hog, assuming a production cost of $1.45.

“That translates into a loss of equity, in Alberta alone, of $1.7 million every week,” he says.

Because Canadian hogs are priced against U.S. markets, the high Canadian dollar has put a major dent in producer returns. However, producers are increasingly questioning their prices relative to their counterparts in the U.S. and around the world.

“Canada has the lowest prices in the world and Alberta has the lowest price in Canada,” Haggins says. “Pricing formulas must be adjusted if we are to survive. There is no future for the industry if we keep losing money – we must get more for our pigs.”

Haggins believes that Alberta producers are receiving 10-15 per cent below what they should relative to U.S. prices.

“The formula favours the packer,” he says. “The industry needs to reduce its debt burden, maintain its current production base, generate recapitalization and encourage new investment. The future has to be based on profit.”

CUTTING COSTS

Alber ta Pork has been restructuring its activities in order to face the new realities of life in an embattled industry. It is now focusing on initiatives “that can benefit pork producers by providing services that will either help reduce production costs or improve revenue streams.”

Haggins says a key part of this goal will be to develop a better knowledge of production costs relative to competitors.

“We are going to work with other provincial pork boards and government in order to establish a benchmarking program for costs of production,” he says.

Alberta Pork will be looking at ways of improving returns and reducing risk via mechanisms such as minimum pricing, ledger accounts and forward contracting. It is also working with Agriculture Financial Services Corporation on a hog price insurance program, which should become operational in the spring. In addition, the Canadian Swine Health Board is developing the concept of “mortality insurance” which would provide protection against the effects of a major disease outbreak such as occurred with circovirus, Haggins says.

A change to Alberta provincial checkoff legislation means that Alberta Pork’s previously compulsory levy becomes voluntary and refundable in May 2011, which creates uncertainty about revenue. Recognizing that producers are under financial pressure, it has proposed a reduction in the levy from $1 to $0.85. It has also looked at cutting costs in order to improve efficiencies and give producers better value.

Haggins says that even with a reduction in budget of over $600,000 compared to the previous year, Alberta Pork can represent producers effectively. “I am confident we can handle any unexpected costs from our $3-million reserves,” he says.

STRATEGY ABANDONED

A three-year Revitalization Strategy aimed at creating an Alberta Brand for pork and creating more value in the production chain that would feed through to producers has been abandoned. Getting all the players in the pork supply chain to co-operate in the initiative seems to have been an impossible task and there is a sense of frustration evident in Alberta Pork’s Annual Report.

“The sooner we realize that producers, processors, retailers and government are collectively affected by what happens or doesn’t happen in the supply chain, the sooner the pork and agriculture industry will be sustainable and ready to meet consumer needs,” it says. “Strong business relationships need to be based on reasonable economic returns for all in the relationship. This really starts with the packer/producer relationship and that must change right now.”

There is a new urgency about the situation in the pork industry and a growing realization that massive change is required if it is to survive in its current form. After three years of losses, most producers have no Agri- Stability margins left, leaving them vulnerable to sustained losses, while banks are running out of patience. The approach now being taken by Alberta Pork may become the model for other provincial pork organizations as producers fight for their livelihoods.

There is no doubt that after having the light at the end of the tunnel extinguished so quickly, producers are angry, frustrated and perhaps prepared to be a bit more militant in their activities in future.

———

bernie peetPeet onPigs

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“The cow-calf producer wants to sell high, which I totally respect, but my job is to buy as low as I can. How can one entity represent both interests?”

– RICK PASKAL

Alberta Beef Producers as well as pork, lamb and potato groups in that province aren’t happy with their government’s plan to make commodity checkoffs refundable.

However others, including the Alberta Cattle Feeders Association, say they are pleased with the proposed change.

Late last month, Agriculture Minister George Groeneveld announced introduction of Bill 43, which eliminates non-refundable checkoffs for non-supply-managed commodity groups in Alberta.

“We’re quite concerned about this,” said Edzo Kok, executive director of the Potato Growers Association of Alberta (PGA). “It will have an impact on PGA and the amount of levies it collects. If any member asks for a refund, it will affect the finances we have for the organization.”

Members of the Potato Growers of Alberta have written letters to MLAs in potato-growing regions, and have met with members of the government. “Unfortunately, our concerns seem to be falling on deaf ears,” said Kok by phone from his office in Taber.

Kok said PGA membership did not ask for this change. “We weren’t consulted on this at all. We were advised two weeks ago by the deputy minister that it was in the pipeline. At that point, it was no longer up for debate. The decision had been made,” Kok said.

The Alberta Lamb Producers, which is also affected by the change, is disappointed. “We’re already looking at what strategies we can use to get on with business,” said Norine Moore, chair of the Alberta Lamb Producers, from her home in Stavely.

Moore said the change to the checkoffs only comes into effect at the end of the year, which is September 2010 for the lamb producers.

“Our regulations for how the checkoff will work will need to be in place by January 2010,” said Moore. She said that the organization has not had a lot of time to figure out how the changes will affect them. “We have no way of projecting what percentage of producers will ask for a refund,” she said.

“We’re disappointed in the way this was handled,” said Paul Hodgman, executive director of Alberta Pork. “Our position was that the membership should determine where this goes. This has been imposed on us so it will have implications on what we’re doing. We have to figure out how to source funds from outside organizations,” he said. “We’re going to work with the system as best as we can.”

FEEDERS ARE PLEASED

Rick Paskal of Picture Butte, chairman of the National Cattle Feeders Association and board member of the Alberta Cattle Feeders Association, says Bill 43 gives producers the flexibility to use their checkoffs to endorse or reject certain policies coming from Alberta Beef Producers (ABP).

The political structure of the ABP has been a long-standing concern for cattle feeders. Although the previous governance structure and mandatory checkoff were supported by most producers as a democratic system, it was to the contrary, said Paskal. There are 28,000 cow-calf producers in Alberta and 1,000 feedlot operators, both with different business agendas, he said.

“The cow-calf producer wants to sell high, which I totally respect, but my job is to buy as low as I can. How can one entity represent both interests?”

He says the feedlot operators contributed as much financially as the cow-calf producers, but their political representation was only 3.5 per cent on an individual basis. This means that many of the policies being generated did not represent the entire industry’s interests.

“We, through the Beef Industry Alliance, lobbied the government very hard to recognize this imbalance,” says Paskal. “The Alberta government responded with Bill 43.”

“If Alberta Beef Producers introduces good policies that are reflective of the entire industry, then yes, I will absolutely keep my dollars in there,” says Paskal. “But if the policies are not reflective, then myself and others will probably ask for a refund.”

He credits the Alberta Beef Producers and Canadian Cattlemen’s Association with having some of the best staff working within those organizations, but says the industry will not move forward until the policies and governance are reflective of the whole industry.

“There’s now an arena for debate,” says Paskal. “The structure before made people divisive, but now everyone is going to have to sit around the table and look at each other, and come up with policies that work for everyone.”

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